Life & Limb - A monthly podcast about Living Well with Limb Loss

[00:00:03] Jeff Tiessen: Welcome to Life and Limb, a podcast from Thrive magazine all about living well with limb loss or limb difference. I'm Jeff Tiessen, publisher of Thrive magazine and your podcast host. My guest this episode is the incomparable Alvin Law. Alvin's first five days of life is truly where his story starts, in more ways than one. A product of the infamous morning sickness medication thalidomide, he was born in 1960 without arms. His parents were advised not to keep him, and so he was homeless and without a family at five days of age. Alvin has told that story and a whole lot more about his remarkably unique life to over 2 million people on five continents at over 7,500 events. He's an elite professional speaker, a best-selling author of Alvin's Laws of Life - Five Steps to Successfully Overcome anything. And to Alvin, attitude is so much more than an overused word, always beaming with passion and purpose. I am so pleased to welcome Calgary’s own Alvin Law. Alvin, how you doing?

[00:01:14] Alvin Law: Oh, good, Jeff. I'm blushing, in case you can't see.

[00:01:19] Jeff Tiessen: You. What? Really?

[00:01:23] Alvin Law: Believe it or not, even though as a professional speaker, I don’t have an ego. I think a big key to my entire life, success has been humility. I know what I appear to be to people is amazing, but that's not how I ever viewed my life. My life was the epitome of it is what it is. You have another jaded expression. And, you know, I just feel really blessed, and not in a religious way. We're not really religious in our house, but in a faith way, in that I'm so lucky that I had legs and so lucky that I had my feet. And I know that sounds really warm and fuzzy, but that's how I was raised to believe instead of complaining about what I didn't have. You probably hear this a lot in your work. I was able to embrace what I did, and that's a very strong starting point to life. Yeah.

[00:02:11] Jeff Tiessen: It's interesting you say that. I mean, for our listeners, Alvin, I guess you would call your limb loss, shoulder disarticulations, right?

[00:02:18] Alvin Law: Yes.

[00:02:19] Jeff Tiessen: No arms.

[00:02:20] Alvin Law: Right.

[00:02:20] Jeff Tiessen: From the shoulders. I have stumps, residual limbs, and above where an elbow would be. And I've often talked about how fortunate I am to have that length of residual limb. It helps me with my prosthetic devices in range of motion and strength. So, yeah, it is relative or perspective, isn't it?

[00:02:41] Alvin Law: Yeah.

[00:02:43] Jeff Tiessen: Before I get into some of the questions about your speaking and life, what's new? You said you're going to Italy this week. Is that work? Is that pleasure? What's the latest and greatest in your life right now?

[00:02:54] Alvin Law: So, as we're recording this, it is the third week of June. I am like so many speakers in 2024, and I don't know that a lot of speakers are willing to admit this out in the open, because it sounds like not good news. We're still recovering from COVID. The events industry is still very, very slow in having events. Now, having said that, they seem to be coming back. And one of the events that I was very fortunate to get to do in April was for an Italian company based in Parma, Italy. They were a family-owned company started by a grandfather of the now CEO, Giacomo. They do rare genetic research, and they're trying to find cures for the most rare genetic, and in fact, even birth defects on the planet.

So, they found me on the Internet, and they invited me to speak at their huge meeting in Mexico in April. They had 700 people there, but only from one division. And it was amazing because I'd never heard of these people. I tend not to get the flavor of the month from the drug companies, Jeff. You can imagine why that is. So, these people are not a drug company. They're a research company, and they like me so much. Pat on the back. Their CEO contacted me about coming to their annual general meeting in Italy on June 26 to speak at the opening of that day. So, what am I going to say? No? Yeah, I'm going. It's sad. It's only for a week, but that's a real compliment, I think, not only to me, clearly, but to the industry, that I think, really, we start to need to have more of these events. I don't know about you, Jeff. We're doing this on Zoom. I think people are zoomed out. I think we have to have these kinds of meetings. I'm not complaining, but as a speaker, it's almost like an old rock and roll star, right? They can play in front of their iPad in their living room, or are they better in a bar or in a club or in an arena? We always want to see live music live. And that's kind of what I'm all about. So that's where I'm going next week. And then I get the summer off. Not really off. Always working. But we are very fortunate as well. We get to spend the summers at a cottage in Saskatchewan where I'm originally from, and a cottage that has been in our life since 2005, but the lake has been in my family's life since 1948. So it's a little bit of a tradition. And you know what? It's always good to get back to Saskatchewan. I'll always be from there, even though I’ve lived in Calgary now for 24 years. But you know what? Life is good. Seriously. Life could be way worse. As my wife complains every now and then. The only thing she complains about is, shouldn't you be going somewhere?

[00:05:45] Jeff Tiessen: It's time, right? It's time.

[00:05:49] Alvin Law: Go away.

[00:05:51] Jeff Tiessen: No, I know what you mean. I do a lot of seminars in the DEI space. The diversity, equity and inclusion. I do offer virtual. That's what many want. But I have the in-person option, too. And it's always, please pick the in-person. I would rather come and meet and greet and have fun that way. So, to your extraordinary speaking career. But let's start with this. What was your first job? Your very first job?

[00:06:20] Alvin Law: My very first job was actually working in radio. It's almost a funny story. Again, not to get into speaker mode, but I do a lot of these reference points for my audiences. I want to talk about my life, but I also want them to relate to their life. So, I always love the idea, and I'll even do it for your audience today. What did you want to be a million years ago? I'm 63. But back in 1977, when I was in high school, what did I want to be? Well, honestly, I wanted to be a rock star. And as we'll cover in this interview, that was not a stupid idea because I am a pretty good musician. But the reality was it was 1977, and, you know, good for you, working in that field of diversity, equity, inclusion and now belonging. We didn't have those words back then. We were not a cruel society, but we were a naive society. You know, I look at the Paralympic movement as a great example. Look how that has grown since the seventies, because it makes sense. But we had to educate the world first. So my guidance counselor was a very, very smart man, and he said, you know Alvin, you can play those drums of yours really well, but you need to do something that has nothing to do with your feet.

And he said, what about broadcasting? And it was a great idea, actually, to be honest Jeff, like on television? And he goes, no, you're kind of ugly for television, but you'd be great in radio. And of course, this was pre-politically correct. He was right. I was a pretty ugly dude. I got into radio, and the beauty part about that was my love for music helped with that job.

I got the perfect job, Jeff. I worked in classic rock FM radio in Regina. We were called FM 92, the Rock of Regina. That's how it sounded. Right. But we were doing background stories on the music and playing, you know, seven, eight-minute cuts once in a while. So, it wasn't top 40 or pop music. It was deep, good old rock and roll, which I loved. But also I had to develop a talent for radio, which meant becoming very, very, you know, spontaneous, being able to improvise, but also, you know, just being Alvin. And that's really when I came out of my shell, when I got into the radio. And it was a great job, but it didn't last very long.

[00:08:33] Jeff Tiessen: That's interesting. Now, you and I, we wear our hairstyles very similarly, quite close to the scalp. Well, maybe not by choice. In your case, did you have the seventies rock and roll, like, Peter Frampton hairstyle going, too?

[00:08:46] Alvin Law: I totally had it. In fact, I had really big, curly hair. Not perm hair, but curly, unwieldy hair. You know, if you look it up, look up eighties hair. Yeah, that's what everybody had. I like to say, without the arms, I looked like a Pez dispenser.

[00:09:02] Jeff Tiessen: Oh, that's good. That's good. You've talked about one of your biggest life challenges being stigma, and you have a presentation about changing the label and approach to life. So, let's talk about that a little bit.

[00:09:17] Alvin Law: Stigma and stereotype, I think no matter what generation we talk about. But clearly more in the last, I would say, 50-60 years. I'm not suggesting people weren't vain back in the thirties and forties, because if you look up documentaries, people were very much about costumes and appearance, but clearly the Internet, not to blame it, it's just a really convenient target. I think all through my life, there is a stigma regarding imperfect people, especially with severe disability, especially with mental disability. We're still dealing with that with autism, all of those things. And again, it's not because society sets out to be cruel. They're just uncomfortable. And if you can imagine, again, this is audio, but when people see me doing something, like eating with my feet, right. I don't see it that way. And I know this sounds really warm and fuzzy. These are my hands. But when you do this, Jeff, and I'll do it just for you. And we can describe to people that I'm licking my toes off at the end of a great burger or a donut. That is not acceptable in public social circles. Right. At least it wasn't. It's becoming more and more acceptable because of awareness. But the stigma is also connected to this, and I think this may seem a little deep. I think people are afraid of hurting their bodies. They're afraid of getting in a wheelchair. They're afraid of losing a limb. They're afraid of illness. All these things that we see, and even though we can see inspiring stories like yours Jeff, or mine, I guess that doesn't take away from this idea that, Oh My God, I wouldn't want to be like that.

It's a natural human tendency to be uncomfortable around people that are different. And thank goodness we have educated more and more generations. Nowadays, when people see me, for example, doing something with my feet, if they're a teenager, they don't go, oh, that's the grossest thing I've ever seen. Now it's, dude, that's cool. Hey, man, I never thought I'd be cool, but it is happening, and it is a great change in stigma.

[00:11:21] Jeff Tiessen: Yes, you’re just a little bit older than me, but not much. And the changes that we've seen where my arms have become cool to the young generation, and, I mean, I've got them dressed up in a steampunk design, and I've got tattooed ones, but, yeah. And in our day, younger years, it was all about hiding, right? I mean, I would always wear long sleeve shirts. And, yeah, the world is a different place, but at the same time, we're showing confidence in ourselves, too. And I think exuding that makes a difference for others to feel comfortable. But I've certainly heard from a lot of friends with disabilities that same sentiment, that it's an existential reality, that most will probably have a disability of some sort in their life, and that's very frightening to people.

[00:12:08] Alvin Law: Well, you know what's really quite fascinating? Not to jump into a completely different boat here, but my wife Darlene, and she and I met in 1991. I was a single dad from a previous marriage. So I'm on round two, like maybe a lot of your listeners, but the point is, when I met her, you know, I'm going to just be really blunt, man. We are a visual society. When I met my wife, I was visually stunned. She's definitely a looker, and I was attracted. But you know what? I was a single dad. She was married, of all things, to a cop, so we don't mess around with that. But we became friends due to a professional relationship with a speaking engagement I did for her committee in Edmonton in 1991. The point of the story is I found her highly attractive but something happened, whether it was fate or meant to be, I don't know what you call it. We became friends and then we became a couple, and then we became live-ins. She moved to Regina to even be with me and my son, who then was six. And we got married in 1993. Funny thing is, her family had a history of going deaf, like a genetic thing. And, you know, there's a lot of people with hearing aids out there now, Jeff, and then we can say that again. That's a stigma. Not anymore. It's okay to have a hearing problem. Don't be embarrassed. Anyway, she went deaf. So last fall she got a cochlear implant, which if you want to google that and look it up on your own time, folks do that. But she literally now is hearing from an artificial hearing device in her head. And again, that used to have a stigma. Now it's actually not only an amazing thing, but when I joke about this, and it's not meant to be funny, if I stood beside my beautiful wife and you said, who's got the bigger handicap? My wife. Why? Because hearing is such an incredibly important thing that all of us take for granted. And of course, if you want to get real, I'm not handicapped at all. I'm completely independent. But that's not the point. I appear disabled. And I think that's another issue that we've done a lot of growth with over the years.

[00:14:12] Jeff Tiessen: I was going to ask you, and that leads nicely into one of the questions I had for you. You would spend most of your working hours, career time with non-disabled people, generally speaking, right? I mean, yes, we are among people with disabilities in every crowd, but for the most part, it's for non-disabled audiences. Do you connect with the disability community? Do you identify? Like you said, you're completely independent. However, you don't have arms.

[00:14:44] Alvin Law: That's yes and no. And this is where the answer is going to be a little tricky, because I don't want to pull any punches just to be polite. Many of us who have a disability and are achievers have grown to know the term the “chosen ones.” The chosen ones are a rather, I think, insulting phrase, but they fit in the idea that we excel at what we do.

I had a fascinating conversation about this a few years ago. Actually, as you say, I don't know a lot of disabled people, but I know Rick Hansen very well. And Rick Hansen would also be described as one of the chosen ones for what he accomplished. Terry Fox. Unfortunately, we lost Terry, but he would be called that and again, why? Well, because the negative people with disabilities out there don't like that example because it is too much on the achievement side. Like an outlier. Right. And that's fine. I'm okay with that idea. But the insult to me is I still have no arms. And if you are uncomfortable with me because of your disability, it's not on me. Having said that, with due respect, I have a great story. If people want to do a little googling and searching afterwards, I think you might know about this Jeff. I did a wonderful video for the 2016 Rio Paralympics. It was filmed in England. It's called “Yes, I can.” And the video is actually called the “Real Superhumans.’ When I saw that graphic come up at the end of that three minute video, the real superhumans, that is in this case, the British Paralympic team. But there were a lot of other players in that video. I actually got tears in my eyes. I never would have thought of myself as superhuman. But if you think about it and you put it right on the wheels to the ground, it's pretty amazing. And not me. But let's take the Paralympians again. Most of them became disabled, and now they're competing, in this case, for Canada. Right. In the Paralympics in France. Oh My God. That is super human. But some of the more critical people in the community of activism didn't like it. I actually got challenged, I love this, by a columnist in Ottawa with the Ottawa Citizen, who called it disability pornography. I've never heard that, but it was fun, because instead of getting insulted by it, I wrote a blog, I'm not even sure if it's still there, called Breaking News. I'm a porn star.

[00:17:21] Jeff Tiessen: And I've heard of that a lot. And even Paralympic athletes, of which I was one. You know that we're used in the commercials and you see us, you know, as ambassadors. And again, back to that... the chosen ones. And when you talk about that disabled or disability inspiration porn, it was coined by an activist in Australia, Stella Young, who's passed away now, but she talked about inspiration porn, and it's all about that objectifying of one group for the benefit of another. So, yeah, I've heard the rub on the superhuman's video, but it is fantastic. I mean, what a great production.

[00:18:02] Alvin Law: And to be quite blunt about this, I will tip my hat to activists. I really mean that. But I'm not, and I hope this isn't insulting to anybody out there. I've never been angry. I went through about 18 months of adolescence, but don't we all, where I was kind of looking at myself going, oh, man, I'm a dog, man. Look at me in the mirror. Yuck. Right? I used my feet as my hands. No girl's gonna want to hold this. Well, as it turned out, that was inaccurate, because my wife holds my foot all the time. But I think that was the one time in my life when I was a little bitter. Right? Why me? And it's a great question, and I'm not saying we shouldn't be upset, especially if we experience later-in-life disability, right? It's real and it's not easy. And I would never, ever try to downplay how hard this was. But to be frank, that was the mental thing. The attitude, as it said in the promotion for this podcast, right, attitude in our family, in my home, growing up was not a cliche. It was a mindset. It was a habit, and it was a way of operating in every single day of my life. I know that sounds, again, a bit cliche, but it worked, and it continues to work in my life to this day.

[00:19:17] Jeff Tiessen: So, you've spoken to some of the messages for the disability community around superhuman and the chosen ones. Back to you spending a lot of time with people outside of our community, that being the typical or the non-disabled community. What is your message through your story for them? I know you may be called an inspirational speaker, a motivational speaker, I would think an educational speaker as well. But at the end of the day, what do you really want them to hear? What do you really want them to take home and, and act on?

[00:19:49] Alvin Law: Well, first of all, it is a great honor to be a speaker. It is an enterprise. I've had my own business since 1988. I can't believe I'm still doing it for a living. But I think at the end of the day, it goes all the way back to 1981 that year. Again, I don't want to be reminiscing too far into the past, but that was the International Year of Disabled Persons. We didn't even get the persons with disability thing then, which was, again, a little bit of a funny thing. But the reality was, that's why I left radio. There were all these opportunities to speak on the topic. And of course, if you're a recognized personality and Regina's kind of a little fishbowl, I got lots of opportunities to go out and speak at luncheons or Rotary events or any of these sort of smaller community type events.

I started to realize, and this might sound a little bit too deep for some people, but the reality was I was wasting my life story being in radio; that's how I viewed it. I was given an opportunity to tell a story that is not about getting up on stage and bragging about, look what I can do with my feet. It was an example to human beings, and I'm just going to say it. What's your excuse? Right? And that's blunt and then maybe even callous; it's not met with that necessary sentiment. But my message to the typical, and I love that word, that's one of my favorite words, Jeff, typical people, is, you know, hey, there's a lot of people out there that have all of their parts, have mental acuity, yet they're going through their lives with nothing but anger, hostility, blame, and quite frankly, they're wasting an opportunity to be great in their own lives. Now, we can't all be superstars. I get that. But that's what my message is to my typical audiences. And they tend to be kind of a built-in kind of crowd. What I mean by that, most of my audiences would be associations. They're people that join an association to be with their peer group. Professional development is a big part of what they do. So, if they're looking to be better professionals, whether it's doctors or lawyers or I engineers or. Heck, Jeff, I've spoken to the Pig Farmers Association of Ontario. If you want to be the best at your work, then you've got to take it on yourself to improve.

My message to them is that anybody can improve and anybody can get better and anybody can make their life better. But at the end of the day, I think the most important thing is answering that question, why are we here? Boy, that gets deep, doesn't it? Why are we here? Why are we all born? That's a big one in my life. Why was I born without arms? Well, if you talk to my wife or my mom who adopted me, she would say, or they would say, because this was meant to be your life, man. It's just the way it is. And that kind of tips a few people's eyes over, but it's real. I really believe my life was meant to be this and I'm simply honoring that.

[00:22:46] Jeff Tiessen: No, that's incredible. Incredible message. But, yeah, deep but simple at the same time, right? It's kind of being the best in your own life, whatever that is.

[00:22:54] Alvin Law: Not completely better people, better community. Right? It's another jaded cliche, but, you know, we seem to be going down the wrong rabbit hole. And I don't want to get into politics here, but, you know, we're kind of, in fact, Jeff, I'll ask you the question. Are you finding that the message in diversity is starting to get a little bit tainted or a little bit old? Are people, I mean, again, when you go, especially, no disrespect, but you go south of the border in North America to the United States, and, you know, we're in an election cycle. We're going to be hearing insults thrown at human beings for the next six months. I'm not into politics. I just got to tell you, and I'm not one or the other, you know, one side or the other. But I got to tell you, when you start insulting people, you're nothing more than a bully. And that, to me, is one of those hot topics that doesn't ever seem to go away.

[00:23:45] Jeff Tiessen: Yeah, I find that interesting, too. And when you ask, how do I view it? 20 to 30 years ago, the words diversity and inclusion, the disability community, we kind of owned those. Those were ours. Right now, I'm all for sharing, and we are sharing with other marginalized groups, but honestly and having this frank conversation, I'm seeing disability dropping down the rungs of the ladder. And we're not, and I don't mean this to sound the wrong way, the flavor of the day, but we've been usurped by some of the other marginalized groups, and again, nothing against those groups. So again, we find ourselves fighting for something that we've been fighting for, for a long time. So I'm really interested to see how this plays out in the next couple of years, you know, five years, if tokenism is at play again, I hope not. But the conversation is there, that's for sure. And I think there is more commitment to it than we've seen in the past. And our voices are louder and more confident now, too, than they've ever been.

[00:24:53] Alvin Law: Well, Jeff, here's a practical way for your listeners to think about this. And this is how I've always positioned it.

Diversity, equity, inclusion, and now the new one… Belonging… is not a secret thing that's going on in HR departments across the world, all right? It's not some kind of rise up rebellion. It is simply a representation of demographics. If you're making a widget and you're selling your widget, your widget is going to be sold to all kinds of people, including people with a disability, including people of color, including people of, you know, ethnic backgrounds. At the end of the day, that's what to me, diversity is all about in the workplace. It's about representing all of the demographics of our society. And it's funny, it depends on where you live that that demographic comes into play. And just on a personal note, and again, I'm not bragging about this, it was a fascinating thing to speak in Uganda; I spoke in front of 2700 Rotarians at a huge regional conference, right? And I look around, my wife and I and a dude from Toronto were the only white people you could see anywhere. And it made me feel funny, not uncomfortable so much as, wow. So this is what it's like to be a minority. Now people might go, what did that mean? Well, because I never thought of myself that way, Jeff. I was born without arms. I'm not a minority, I'm a human being. But being in Africa taught me how we see race is what we're grown up with, right? If you grow up as a black person in the black community, that's going to be your normal. And that's why America in particular has still got so much problem with race relations, is because I think, quite frankly, it's fear. We're afraid of the unknown. And the ironic part about that is, and I'm going to say this… some of the most, I don't know if this is the right expression, but some of the worst offenders are people within their own race towards each other vis a vis back to the disability thing. Right? But you know what? I don't lose a lot of sleep over that idea. I'm a confident human being. I like me in my own skin. And if somebody has an issue with their own skin, I'll respect that. It's as simple as that. And that's the same with race. I think the best companies I work for and the best associations already understand this. And I think we still need to pay attention to how we're hiring and who we're representing in the workplace.

[00:27:22] Jeff Tiessen: Yeah, I like when you say representation. And that can vary, like you said, through region, throughout the country, throughout the world. And I'm talking authenticity too in that lived experience. I think that’s what we can bring as folks with disabilities and the lives we've led, you being an extreme example. Yeah, I mean, we're great problem solvers, aren't we?

[00:27:46] Alvin Law: Well, yeah, if you look at it that way. And here's another irony, the work from home debate could be one of the things that opened the safe for people with physical challenges. Right. All that issue of accessibility and being able to be in the workplace. Well, now, if you can work from home, double bonus, right? We don't have to worry about transportation. We don't have to worry about ramps. We don't have to worry about elevators. Don't have to worry about accessible washrooms, all those things that are physical elements. But again, to go back to Rick Hansen. Rick Hansen is one of the heroes of accessibility around the world, but not because he's trying to get a trophy. He genuinely knows what it's like to be in a wheelchair and to see the world from that perspective. And if you're in a wheelchair, you know, it's frustrating. You know, a lot of people would say, well, if you can't get in the building, get over it. Really? That's pretty narrow minded, for sure.

[00:28:38] Jeff Tiessen: All right, I'm grabbing you by the ears and pulling you out of the rabbit hole that we just went down together. Simple question for you. You being an entertainer, that is, as much as the motivation and the education you provide, what motivates or entertains you?

[00:28:57] Alvin Law: Well, to be quite honest with you, I love everything in terms of showmanship. I love music. I love concerts. I love comedians. I love movies. I love stage. I love theater. I love musicals. Anytime anybody is using their talent to perform, to entertain me, that is what I love more than anything. And because I'm a musician, I can relate to that. I think we need to have more of that. That's why Covid was so hard, because, not to bring that up again, but, you know, we lost that sense of being able to go out and see a show or being able to sit and listen to a musician. There's nothing ever in the world better. You know, it's quite funny. My wife and I were just commenting on the fact that there was a recent documentary out on Elton John and his million-dollar piano. Well, again, not to brag about this, but I had the good fortune of speaking in Vegas at the same exact time Elton John was playing in Vegas in Celine Dion's theater. And we got 10th row tickets. Not by any stretch without somebody giving them to me. They were expensive. Best concert ever. You can listen to Elton John on the radio or on your mp3 player or on your device or whatever, but to see him in person, to smell the room, to see the excitement, there's nothing better. And I think, again, that's what people need to do more of. And if they can't play, go watch, go to more shows, go out. One of the things about going to Italy next week coming up is the food, right? To be able to go out and get the food. Now we can order, skip the dishes or whoever we're ordering from to bring it to our house. But to me, the experience of going to a restaurant and having food made by a chef in the restaurant and being served by a great person, that is what makes life worth living.

[00:30:42] Jeff Tiessen: Absolutely. You being a musician, and you've referenced that a couple of times, I know from the interview you did with us in Thrive magazine that there's an interesting trombone story. As a kid, you picked up drums, so to speak. You're quite skilled at that. And piano, despite your first piano teacher telling you that your toes weren't long enough, right?

[00:31:07] Alvin Law: Correct. And that's a great story.

[00:31:10] Jeff Tiessen: So those are all things that your mom, and maybe we take it back to the homegrown attitude where you talked about your mom and being adopted. Hilda and Jack Law never felt any guilt as you talked about, and they were never abashed at highly encouraging you. Maybe as the soft way of saying forcing you or making you do these typical things. Mowing the lawn, shoveling the driveway, playing trombone. Just talk about that briefly, Alvin. I think it's important.

[00:31:46] Alvin Law: Well, thanks, Jeff, and I'll try and be brief because it's such a complicated, deep story, but a little background. By the way, if I could say this before I start, the article that you did on me in your magazine is one of the best written articles I've ever had in my life. That writer was incredibly talented, and it gave a sense of dignity to the interview because a lot of interviews that I get with the press, they don't go into a lot of that part of it that describes what it really feels like. They talk about, oh, how amazing I am. Thank you very much. But that's why the story is what it is in my book, which I'm not going to brag about. It's really my mom and dad's story. And if you can picture what happened, I was homeless. Yes. 1960 was a different era.

So, when my birth family had me, they were a young family, young farmers with two small children. They were overwhelmed by the truth. And the medical community, with due respect at the time, did not give them any help. They basically recommended, like, a lot of things that we did in our past that we hopefully won't do again in history. We were very much put behind the curtain so nobody could see me, nobody would adopt the child without arms. So, I had to go to a foster home. In the foster home in Hilda and Jack Law's house. They had set up a foster home because they had two adult sons who were in the military and lived a great distance away. Mom was very religious. There's two empty bedrooms in this house, and there are kids in the foster system that need a home for a little while, largely, and I'm going to be very direct with this comment, they were largely fetal alcohol syndrome First Nations kids from local reserves who got themselves in trouble with the judicial system.

So, mom and dad would look after them, even though we know that wasn't the best solution back then. But they had this attitude, and here's one of the best lines ever Jeff. Mom's philosophy was, we don't care what happened to you, but we do care what's going to happen to you. That's a big difference. And that was their philosophy. So, when I had nowhere to go, I was an extreme case, like all of the other kids they brought in, which were largely teenagers. They took me in to give me a bed for a little while. Well, one thing led to another, and it's a lovely story. Of course, they kept me, but not because they wanted another child. It was just one of those things, one of those wonderful stories. But I also think it had everything to do more with my mom than my dad. My dad worked long hours as a service manager for a large farm implement and truck dealership called International Harvester back in those days, and he was gone a lot. Mom was home alone. And in those days, again, with due respect, mom didn't have a job, so her job was fostering. And when I came along and then I became the only child in the house, it was at first a task, and then it became, okay, I guess this is our third son. I guess we'll keep him. But their mindset was old school.

What I'm most amazed by, and you made a reference to it was, I didn't get away with anything. My mom and dad didn't do everything for me. My first memory, and if anybody wants to try this exercise, close your eyes and remember. What's your first childhood memory? Mine is sewing buttons on rags with my toes. Mom was a seamstress, so she would give me stuff to do. A bunch of buttons on a rag with the needle and thread. I even had to thread the needle with my toes. Try that sometime. Now, what was my mom doing? She was doing what older women of the day did teaching their kids to be practical. Again, no reference to today, because I can get off on another rabbit hole about how we do everything for our kids, and we wonder why they're living in their parents basement. Anyway, I was so independent-minded because that was the climate in our house. As time went by, I needed activities. And again, my parents weren't silly. They knew there were certain things that were not going to work for me. You know, I often joke about sports, and of course, the most jaded old joke I own is I love to play soccer, or as we know it, rightfully called football. I was very good at it, and I never got the penalty for touching the ball in my hands. Yay. But we didn't play soccer or football in Yorkton, Saskatchewan. Everybody played hockey. Well, I tried skating. One day, I fell on my face. I thought, okay, I'm not going to do that anymore.

But I got into music. I got into singing. I got into tap dancing. I loved that. I wanted to play something. So what do ten year olds do? Go and get piano lessons? So mom took me over to a lady to get me piano lessons, and she basically said, and she's right, I had very short toes. I'll never play the piano. You know, she wasn't wrong. And I think that is exactly the point. We all hear stories like this of things that were at the time, wrong. Well, no, they were of the time. But the best part of the story is a year later, to get to the exact point you were making. A band director in Yorkton, Saskatchewan, saw it differently. He knew that I was a musician in my head and in my heart. So he fashioned a trombone that was held by metal rods and clamps on the side of a wooden chair that I played with my foot just like this. And that led to jazz. Jazz led to jazz camp. Jazz camp led to jamming. And one day, I sat down to pretend to play a set of drums. And instead of the drum instructor chasing me off the drums and calling me an idiot, he said, let me teach you how to play those. And that was 1972. So I started playing drums with my feet as well, and eventually would go back to the piano and teach myself to play. And I'm not good, Jeff. Not a good piano player. But there's nothing I enjoy more than just sitting in front of a keyboard, tapping away with my toes, enjoying the music that I make up in my head.

But music was not about, let's say this again, I know we don't want to go back to this topic. It was not about diversity. It was about the fact I was in a small town in Saskatchewan. I had the talent and an amazing human being. Jeff, who does that? Who says trombone? No arms? Right. It doesn't make sense. But when I got into that community, that was the most important thing. And this is a very positive topic, Jeff, that became my world around musicians. Musicians. I love this expression. Really don't care what you look like. That's why they look like they do. All they care about is, can you play? And one of the greatest joys of my life is answering, yes, I can.

[00:38:16] Jeff Tiessen: That's a great story. Really great story. And I don't know if I've ever heard anybody ever say “my toes are too short to play piano”, but you probably say a lot of stuff that people don't hear every day.

[00:38:31] Alvin Law: Humor was huge. My sense of humor is a critical element of my mental health, and I think it's quite humorous, actually. I look at how I used to speak back in the eighties. I've got tape recordings on cassettes of my old speeches. I used to tell the most disgusting, politically incorrect, handicapped jokes in the world. Because you could get away with that back then. Right now, should we still be able to get away with it? Absolutely not. We needed to fix our attitude and be more aware and respectful of people's opinions and feelings. But at the same time, it was still funny. My wife jokes about this all the time. Alvin, to watch people see you, to react to you, is funny. It's not embarrassing. It's hilarious. Going up to a drive through with my feet, right? Driving my car, because I don't have hand controls. Duh. I steer with my right foot on the wheel, my left foot on the gas. You get up to the drive through window and you give them your debit card with your toes. That's funny. It's not embarrassing. And it's even funnier, as we said already in this conversation. Now, the kids in that booth that work at McDonald's or something, they're not looking at me going, hey, dude, that's just disgusting. They're going, respect, man. Props. They use all these new words. I don't know what the latest one is. It's nice to get respect for once, isn't it? Yeah.

[00:39:45] Jeff Tiessen: Again, times have changed for the good. For the good. That's great. But, I mean, you've paved that way for yourself, too, with your sense of humor, your attitude, all of that kind of made the bed that you're comfortably lying in.

[00:40:01] Alvin Law: Need to teach people how to treat us. Yeah. You know, we can't assume everybody knows how to do this for sure. Right? It was funny, when I met my wife, she'd never had a friend or even an associate that she knew any time in her life with a disability.

And all of a sudden she's dating a guy without arms, and her family's going, okay, wait, what are you doing? Right. Well, she said it's not about the disability, it's about the, as you said it already, authenticity of a character. That's the key to all of this.

[00:40:28] Jeff Tiessen: Yeah. You know, being a prosthetic-wearing double arm prosthetic, people don't know - I wear hooks on both sides - do I shake his hand? Do you shake a guy's hands? Right. So I'm quick to reach out my hand. It just, you know, it's a sigh of relief. You can hear people, just the comfort sigh right there that they don't have to make that decision. That said, some of my friends that are, you know, advocates in the ableism world say, well, you're just enabling their ableism by doing that. Well, I'm not going to let them suffer. And it's not all that comfortable for me either. And maybe the next guy, wherever he is, that's wearing two artificial arms like I am, you'll have an easier time with them. To your point we need to educate. We need to be somewhat accountable. It can't always be them having to understand. But I wanted to ask you about another aspect of your performing career, that being acting. And not a deep question about this. This is more me bragging on you for our listeners. You've won an Emmy, an Emmy award for a short ABC TV film feature. You had a role on the hit TV show X Files. There have been award-winning Canadian documentaries about you. Your short video on Goalcast has 40 million views on Facebook and climbing, I'm sure. So, Alvin, you are Canadian media royalty, what's that like? Tell us.

[00:42:00] Alvin Law: You know, I'll tell you a root story that is a very important part of what you just talked about. And thank you for all those accolades. Mom and dad again taught me to be humble. They taught me to live my own normal, if we can use that expression. But they also recognized that I had a story to tell. So in 1976, while I was at Camp Easter Seals in Watrous, Saskatchewan on Lake Manitou, CBC Television from Saskatoon came to do a feel good story on Camp Easter Seals. They were wandering around with a then-version of a video camera, and they caught me shooting a bow and arrows on the bow and arrow range with my feet, laying back, using my feet, you know, holding the bow with my left, pulling on the bow and the arrow and the string with my right. And I was not good at it. But of course, they're walking along going, who?

And they, of course, ask permission. Can we film you doing this? Sure. Well, then can we do an interview? Sure. And that was the first time that my story made public media. It was shown on the Saskatoon Evening News. Before I know it, I'm getting an invitation to be the 1977 Saskatchewan Easter Seals, we used to call them Timmy, remember, the poster child for disabled children, which, again, very, very controversial topic for some people. I digress. The reality was, I said, I'd love to do that, and here's where the speaking began. Usually the cute little handicap kid would be in the photo ops, and that was it. My dad said, I think you need to get with these people and say, do you want me to talk a little bit? Because I can talk a lot and I'm good at it. Well, I started talking at these events instead of just getting up and doing a photo op. I would do, like, a ten minute speech, but not about how amazing Alvin Law is, but about the potential and ability of all handicapped kids. In this case, all they need is a little bit of assistance to find what they can be good at, and they can live as normal a life as possible. And you, by helping Easter Seals, yada, yada, yada, yada. That was the pitch, right? Well, before you knew it, it became a thing.

I got invited to be in my first ever 30-minute documentary. It was called Alvin, His Best Foot Forward. And it was filmed by CBC in Yorkton. Showed me in the choir, showed me doing drama. I was in theater, showed me playing my trombone, playing my drums, showed me driving a car. Before you know it, I'm on now. This is going back a little ways. The show Roy Bonne Steel. Remember that 30-minute show he had way back a million years ago? In the evening on prime time on Easter Monday, 1978, I became a national celebrity then. I also started getting invited to do telethons again, bad word for some people.

But I started believing that I'm going to use my story not to be famous, because let's remember, fame was not the way we see it today in the Internet generation. Fame was not something that I pursued. I knew that I had to get attention if I wanted to tell the story, way before the Internet. So any way that I could do that, press articles, newspaper articles, magazine articles, I mean, I applaud you, Jeff. You're still publishing a magazine. Good for you. Some people still want to hold something and read it with their hands or their feet. But I dedicated my life in those days to what I thought was going to be a temporary thing. Well, before you know it, big networks are coming, and that's why I've got an Emmy award. It's right behind me. I got it from ABC television. They did a documentary on me that was part of a big show called Front Runners, about achievers. Ironically, that show, I'm giggling now, I just thought of this, I never thought of this. I gotta tell Darlene this. We gotta catch up on this. That same show had Pat Sajak of Wheel of Fortune in that episode, and now he's just retired. That's how long ago this show was. So anyway, I accepted the fact that I had an opportunity again, not to sign autographs, but to change the dialogue, to change the discussion about disability. But more than anything, and this is my favorite part, if I can inspire a disabled child to believe in themselves that they can do anything, then good for me. Yes. Not pat on the back good for me. But it acknowledges my existence, and that's really what this is all about.

[00:46:24] Jeff Tiessen: Wow. That's an incredible answer to a question about the X Files.

[00:46:32] Alvin Law: That caught a lot of controversy. I played an armless preacher on an episode about circus freaks. Look it up. It was called Humbug. It's on Netflix. I had really big hair then, but I got the job because they had to find an armless preacher. That's what the writer wrote. And they were filming in Vancouver in those days. I happened to be doing the Variety Show of Hearts Telethon in Vancouver. And the producer, one of them named Rob Bowman, just happened to catch me on his day off on a Sunday afternoon at the precise moment that I was showing a thing where I was pushing the buttons on an old school telephone, how to dial a phone if you want to call in and make a donation. That's when he saw me using my feet. And he's going, I need an armless guy to play a preacher. I wonder if he's ever acted. I've never acted. And yet I got a credit on a show called X Files, which then was one of the biggest TV shows ever. So, yeah, pretty cool. Pretty cool.

[00:47:24] Jeff Tiessen: It sure was. Yeah. The winding road of life, huh?

[00:47:27] Alvin Law: Winding road of life, man. You got it.

[00:47:29] Jeff Tiessen: Listen, last one for you. I'm going to let you go. I appreciate all the time you've given us already. And it's a question I like to ask all my guests. It's kind of simple, but we get some fun answers. So if a great day for you is like a recipe, what are the ingredients for you to go into that recipe of a great day? What makes a great day for you?

[00:47:50] Alvin Law: That's a really interesting question, and I have to sit and think about it a little bit. I think the recipe for my life is waking up, opening my eyes, and in my case, looking over to my beautiful bride, and if I'm not home, even in a hotel, and realizing that I have had such a lucky and blessed life. And again, not a religious word; blessed in the sense of so many gifts have been given to me, I would say the recipe would be, wake up with gratitude. Don't watch the news.

Keep your phone away from you. Here's a funny recipe. That's a great question. Do you know one of the best parts I'm going to do? A visual, even though you can't see it on the audio. I have an iPhone right in my foot here. Do you know one of the blessings of having no arms? Jeff, I don't know about you. I can't hold my phone and walk around with it in my hand. I can't check it out every 10 seconds and see what I'm missing. I actually don't carry it in my pocket. I have it in my man purse. If it rings, I can't answer it. I used to wear one of those little thingies on my ear. I hated that. What was I trying to be cool or Spock? No, I was going through a phase where I wanted to look like a business guy. Well, the reality is we've become slaves to our devices, so I don't use my phone like that. I had my thing pop up the other day. One week of screen time for my phone, 42 minutes. I challenge anybody to beat that. Okay.

Again, in my life, I've got a beautiful home. I've got a beautiful wife. I've got a dog. I walk him every morning at precisely 10:00 because he knows that's what time we go for a walk down the alley. I've trained him to walk off leash. I love to cook. I'm not great at it, but I love to be able to be in the kitchen or if I'm not cooking, to be with my wife. I love to finish the day with a nice glass of wine or a gin and tonic. I love to sit in the evenings with my wife and watch Netflix, just engage in being alive. But more than anything, I really mean this. I have such good friends, such wonderful people that I know that have always had my back. And I can't think of a better recipe for life than knowing, you know, to be a friend. To have a friend, you got to be a friend. And I've tried as much as I can humanly possible to continue to share all of the good news of my life with everybody that I know. And social media is handy for that. But at the end of the day, and by the time I go to bed at night, I know I am one lucky dude, man. And that to me, gratitude, is the most important recipe in this whole idea. Being grateful. I am grateful every day for what I have.

[00:50:26] Jeff Tiessen: That's incredible. We are lucky and grateful to have you on Life and Limb, Alvin. Thank you for that. Yeah, incredible response. There's a lot of nuggets in there for any of us to draw from. Again, thanks so much. And congratulations on an incredible life, successful life, all your achievements, but really, as much as that, smashing those stigmas and stereotypes that impact us all and helping to pave a path for all of us. So, listen, Alvin has some great videos of some of his presentations on his website. Well worth every minute of watching. Check him out on his website www.alvinlaw.com.

This has been Life and Limb. Thanks for listening. And you can read about others who are thriving with limb loss or limb difference, including Alvin's story on our website at thrivemag,ca. And you'll find our previous podcast episodes there, too. Until next time, live well.